[Phase 3][Binding] HIP-74: A Peaceful Fork 🕊

[clesaege]

@herniadlf

What about the arbitrator if Open poh is going to be on poly? There will be a kleros arbitrator in poly too? Same question with governorv2.

The Open POH team can either use a bridge to Ethereum (or even Gnosis Chain) or make their own arbitrator.

@falling

The only question now is about who keeps what.

Well I think everyone keeps what they own (the DAO can’t seize people assets anyways).
But I guess doing a fork in a peaceful manner means that both side get sufficient time to prepare to duplicate the resources they currently don’t have.

@Venus

Are we able to get a clear outline for benefits to the community for both sides? Like a comparison panel or something?

The benefit is that each side get to have a POH version following their wishes.
The pol.is identified two distinct groups. Each group gets to make a version of POH (Group A being Open PoH and Group B PoH Origin).

Looking at this result:
Open PoH will focus on:

• Lowering tech and economic barrier of entry.
• Governance.
• Management of telegram groups.
• Community popularity.
• UBI.

while

PoH Origin will focus on:

• Sybil resistance.
• Technical and economic security of the registry.

[ptaq.eth]

@Venus

Are we able to get a clear outline for benefits to the community for both sides? Like a comparison panel or something?

I think that framing of questions posted in poll by @clesaege might point to a conclusion that PoH Origin is about “Security of the Human Registry, minimalism and composability” of the registry. IMO, it’s a little bit misleading, because, some people believe that a 3rd party private DAO oversight in PoH will result in long-term lack of security and it’s exploitation (court fees), due to potential censoring of the registry or making it complicated - think a registry of people controlled by Facebook / Twitter that also makes money each time you fail or go to court.

From PoH DAO perspective, arbitrage service is just a swappable module, which is enough to threaten Kleros DAO existentially (or consider it a bad investment), if no fork is done and arbitrage service gets swapped.

Open PoH DAO attempts to be self-governed and arbitraged. Especially, no private court, but egalitarian one, while still maintaining security and proper jury incentives. PoH - an independent DAO should have no dependence on a 3rd party DAO, which may potentially treat it as a long-term source of revenue (court cases generate revenue), in it’s decision-making process. You don’t ask Google to write privacy regulation in your country, unless you live in a “Banana Republic” - same goes for DAOs and their partnerships.

[Andrei]

Moved to phase 2: [Phase 2][Signaling] HIP 74: A peaceful Fork - #2 by Andrei

[shotaro.eth]

This HIP has been put to a vote.

[Venus]

I would agree with this if google were attempting to govern people. They are not. If this was just about finance, I would also agree but we’re talking about a UBI which will be attractive to the poorest of the poor PEOPLE who will be the legs for this finance. Because of this there need to be clear regulations that will be of most benefit to the people it will ultimately be governing.

[0xjean.eth]

@ptaq.eth

Open PoH DAO attempts to be self-governed and arbitraged. Especially, no private court, but egalitarian one, while still maintaining security and proper jury incentives.

Do you have anything written about it? Would love to read more about this on a separate post.

I believe forking maximizes the chances of making this vision materialize, since one side of the fork will be able to use the treasury and resources to pursue it, without having to convince the other side it is a good option - which right now is leading to more polarization, political fights, and the toxic environment we’ve got to naturalize.

[herniadlf]

I bring here a message from the duplicated post

Not 100% sure about this proposal yet…
How do you imagine that each side will define the constitution or the Main principles? In the way i’m seeing this, if everyone can stay in both registries, everyone can vote in both sides and the fork Will be stucked. Did you think about it?
It seems to me that some kind of centralization/trust will be needed.

Appending… For me this is a “split” proposal not a “fork” one.

This definition does not change much, but it may help to guide discussions.

[Venus]

The community needs an organizer or benevolent dictator of some sort.

[Zeptimus]

@00brujula

I’m concerned about the similarity of the names, dont they compete?

There is no point on competing to create abundance the MOAR the better

[shotaro.eth]

This proposal has been moved to a phase 3, binding, vote.

[shotaro.eth]

Hey just for posterity, here’s my proof of human (error). While making the phase-3 snapshot vote, I made an error in the title, I went to delete the new proposal, but accidentally deleted the completed phase-2 snapshot proposal

Though we have copies of the outcome, and I reached out to snapshot to restore the page.

For the record votes are still stored by snapshot and phase-2 did pass with 70% support to move to phase 3

Move to Phase 3: 366 VOTE 70.43%
Make no changes: 153 VOTE 29.57%

0xjean.eth @ 🇦🇷⤴ (@jnptzl) on X

We’re all human, and we all make mistakes. Apologies for any confusion!~

[juanu]

Im wondering why Open-PoH will live on Polygon first instead of Mainnet First → Polygon second

[ptaq.eth]

@juanu , I was wondering the same thing, but I think Open POH spec isn’t finalized yet - reuse of Kleros developed designs and code-base with different parameters may not lead to desired outcome, which is, among other things, decent decentralization of courts.

Any eventual PoH implementation should be “multi-chain” (at least with respect to L2s), which could mean that Ethereum L1 is a central registry and bridges to sidechains / L2 only sync peoples records back to L1. I think that both Origin and Open team get that, but they currently have different priorities, which are: Gnosis partnership with Kleros (PoH Origin) vs reaching more users via Polygon PoS due to size of the user base (Open PoH)

IMO, both Polygon PoS and xDAI, shouldn’t be heavily relied upon for really important stuff, since they’re really protected with some multisigs and we know they’re vulnerable (just because it didn’t happen to them yet, doesn’t mean it won’t happen). In comparison, L2s already have better security properties and they seem like a better bet long-term, e.g. zkSync, Optimism or Polygon zkEVM.

[juanu]

Makes sense.
@clesaege @Andrei would deploying Open PoH to polygon first allow us to later deploy to mainnet and bridge profiles or does mainnet have to be first for it to work?

[Andrei]

PoHv2 will be deployed on mainnet (in order to inherit the v1 profiles) and give the possibility to expand to other chains for the benefits those offer. Thus v2 must be first deployed on mainnet. PoHOrigin picked Gnosis Chain because it’s the only chain besides mainnet kleros court is deployed to.