Tokenomics for UBI

Universal Basic Income
21

Hey y’all
Been thinking this for a while now, as I consider it the most important threat to UBI’s sustainability.
So, UBIs are inyected every hour into Ethereum and two things can happen:

  • UBI value eventually will drop to 0 because is very likely that UBIs have a faster minting rate than the growth rate of the Ethereum economy (this is, the value of all the ecosystem).
  • UBI will mantain its nominal value, but then every Ethereum asset will see its price go up. This scenario will happen if UBI stablish itself as the reference token in the ecosystem.

Let’s not forget that we’re creating tokens out of air here, so in order to reduce the inflow into the entire ecosystem, we could:

  • Stablish a decreasing rate in dripping per person instead of the fixed 1 UBI/hr. Rate could be logarithmic with some asymptote like 0,01 UBI/hr. This reduces inflow but technically it’ll still be infinite.
  • Put assets to back UBI’s value (similar to Maker which receives ETH and mint DAI). If UBI has nothing to back its value, it’ll eventually drop to near-zero (although it may sound unpleasant).
  • Extend the cases when UBIs are burned: if a profile is challenged and it loses, then its UBIs won’t go to the challenger, they’ll be burned (Less UBI → more value per UBI → everyone wins). We need to think about more cases like this.

Let me know what y’all think

4 Likes
22

Like this idea, seems to me the equivalent of the carbon credits market. What happen if companies that automates their production/service lines, are required or highly expected from the community that they would provide collateral for UBI minting? That way you would be “taxing” robots and directly allocating it for social and economic regeneration (same way as carbon credits).

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23

I wouldn’t go that way, taxing.
I was thinking more like some big DeFi investment fund (later on we can discuss investments strategies), where the income generated by it goes to re-buy UBI from the market, and then burn it.

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24

Like conditions(or highly recommended)
_For people that doesn’t have the funds to self fund and use crowfound to register, maybe putting like a regulation or condition, that the first thing they have to do once the total amount of UBIs earned = the amount of the 100% deposit in ETH value, either crowfound someone else on the crowdfund list, and second wait again once they have 720 ubi add to ETH or DAI liq pool both equals value and then after that they can start using the UBI as they please…it’s just an idea…thoughts ?
_For people that self fund, start at the second condition, liquidity pools, then do with the second or third month of UBIs earned as they please…

For example for crowdfund: their first 720 ubi crowdfund someone else, then when they get their deposit back, swap to eth or hold as ubi, then their 2nd month of another 720 ubi, add to liquidity pools, same eth/ubi, then at their 3rd month use ubi as they please.

And for self funds, just start at their first 720 ubi to eth or hold then their second 720 add to liquidity pools eth/ubi, then use ubi as they please

26

I am toying with the idea of just embracing inflation.
The idea is that every new registration will generate an amount to the DAO corresponding to the total $UBI volume/pr. existing user.
And every hour 0.00023 % of the volume pr. user is deposited into each account (2% annually).

I think this would give rise to a controlled inflation of 2% pr. year (after the price settles) and provide the DAO with funds in the growth phase.

Perhaps a 5 % annual inflation target would be interesting to make the redistribution faster and encourage spending/converting.

This can also be combined with burning to increase the value of payments.

27

Trust me, you don’t want inflation in order to encourage spending :sweat_smile:
However, we have a double effect here: dripping per person, and amount of people receiving that dripping.

We should model this combined effect and see posible outcomes.
What happens if the amount of people registered doubles overnight? Suddenly we’ll have double UBI inflow than the day before.

Defining how much of the total UBI stock is minted in a certain period of time is important.

28

I don’t think we should change anything on the supply side: every human gets X per day, forever.

We could however work on the demand side to create also a standard. The ultimate “stable coin” should be truly one that has a value that is universal and with UBI it could be proposed as 1 UBI gets you N hours of one human work.

This has the advantage that is actually easy to do via the internet using video chats. There are many types of work that require by definition human time. Amazon mechanical Turk, focus group, research, UX reviews, artistic tasks, AI data tagging. Even when some of these can be automated they often required human training data.

For example in my work I rely a lot on userbrain.io a site for user review research. Every “credit”’gets me a 5-15 minute video where a user will click a link and follow simple instructions while reading it out loud. It’s really a simple concept really but it’s actually super useful: a video stream for a specific task. In userbrain each credit is sold for $19-25 and gets me a 15 minutes video at most, and honestly it’s worth for my work so it’s an area that could be innovated on. Even if the users are getting half of that, that’s over $40 per hour which seems to be a great opportunity for disruption.

I don’t know how to do that in a decentralized way, but I imagine it could be done by a DAO: an entity that would be willing to burn X UBI tokens and provide N minutes of a video stream with a confirmed human. The stream could have some basic rules (human should be talking, video optional, instructions in link had to be within some reasonable requests) but it could be used for a lot of different things. Maybe you want to test your new product with real people, maybe you want people to sing a song or maybe just need some moderators for your forum.

Mainly it would provide a basic floor for UBI token: no matter what the value, you can always burn one to get X minutes of human time.

Human time. Better than a currency backed by metal or energy: humans and time. Always correcting for inflation, depending on just the basic infrastructure of the internet, accessible from anywhere in the world.

The human standard.

2 Likes
29

Very interesting.
I support the idea of having multiple sources of income that constantly fund the Humanitarian Yearn Vaults (hyv).
What you @AvsA say could be the copy-paste of the product you use but backed up by PoH. As an example, humanbrain.io (don’t click the link. Is an example) uses UBI as credits, burns some part of them, other part turns them into ETH and with them fund the hyv.

Also, what @Nachobr says could be combined with the DeFi idea that @JoacoF says. As incentives are needed to drive massive resources.

The ultimate thing is making UBI a regenerative economy, where we turn the existing companies into protocol-orgs that beyond covering a market also fulfill a purpose.

1 Like
30

Okey now with the creation of the YVF(Yearn Vault Farming) this pivote to a similar conditions(or highly recommended)

So instead of “For people that doesn’t have the funds to self fund and use crowfound to register,” Use first the YVF

1 Like
32

We need to improve the demand side of $UBI to stabilize its value. I.e. people need to be able to do something with the tokens.

With options like these in place, people will have reasons to purchase $UBI or hold it after earning it.

Idea 1: paying for services. We build a copy of fiverr.com which uses $UBI as the unit of trade.

Idea 2: enabling existing merchants. We build an API for enabling web store payments using $UBI.

2 Likes
33

An idea has been going around my head, and I wanted to share in case it helps or triggers a new, better (and maybe useful :grinning:) one. As many on the group, I am worried on how to stabilize the UBI price:

  • We want a price that can really help people as an Universal Basic Income (Price of UBI decreasing to zero won’t)
  • There is a huge value of Proof of Humanity angle of the project (Curated list of unique humans), but I have been fighting on how that value could directly impact the UBI price
  • PoH users (I mean as “PoH users” the applications/contracts/DAOs making use of the PoH curated list for validation, airdrops, etc) also needs that price impact, as if the UBI price decreases too much, there wouldn’t be incentives for humans to register and so the value and usefulness of PoH would decrease
  • So as a conclusion, I think that the PoH users have an incentive to make the project advance, so it is in their direct interest that the UBI price does not to drop

Having this last idea in mind, I was thinking on a fee (or related) in order to use the PoH verification interface and I crossed with the concept behind EPNS (Ethereum Push Notification Service), where in order for a platform to use the service I understand they need to stake DAI in AAVE and the earned interest in the system can be reclaimed by the end users receiving the notifications (Channel Activation & Deactivation - Whitepaper) (disclaimer, have not used or understand deeply this particular project, but the idea resonated)

So what I imagined is what if any applications/contracts/DAOs that intends to get use of the PoH contract interface to verify humans, needs to stake DAI in a vault in order to use it, and the interest gained is used to burn UBIs (And so helping stabilize the price). This would be something similar to the yearn vault already implemented, but in this case the full interest could be burned. Also if the PoH interface user grows and is successful, we would have a recurrent and growing burning of UBIs due to the inherent use of the PoH platform. Further ideas to investigate is how to dimension this vault staking, could there be different staking volumes (and so more interest and UBI burning) based on type of use, size of the project, etc.?

I imagine several complexities in order to implement something like this (How to enforce the vault staking and verification in the PoH contract interface, extra gas costs of all this procedure that could inhibit the use of the interface), and many more that for sure I am not aware of, but wanted to share!

5 Likes
34

Hmm…I kind of think that’s a really good idea. Of course I have no idea whether it would be feasible to create this.

35

Hello first of all I want to clarify I don’t know anything about economy (literally anything)

Already said that I’ve been reading that everyone is saying that there’s a need to start making people use $UBI for payments. I came up with an idea (probably already thought or impossible to make).

I was meditating about the Universal Basic Income topic (in general, not only UBI and PoH).

In Argentina, for example, all the social programs are criticized by the people with the argument that people get lazy when they receive social plans. And besides social plans in Argentina is like a 1/8 of a minium wage and all the people that say this are far from being sociologist; there’s a truth that (luckily) nobody will no longer want sh*t jobs because they will no longer desperately need money to eat…

  • So I came with the idea of making a platform besides PoH (or inside) that offers courses for learning (from history, music, coding, carpentry) something like idk " Learning Humanity "

  • And in this site the people will be able to pay for the courses that professors offers with $UBI

  • Also an incentive for professors (apart from contribute PoH) to use the platform and offer courses could be they will register automatically on PoH (without having to pay the register) - I really don’t know if this is possible-

The people will learn to get a better/new job, or to contribute with society development. Or they will be learning for the pleasure of knowledge.

Again, this might be a non-viable idea but i thought about it and who knows.
Sorry about my english I’m from Argentina.
Thanks for reading, I really want to end merciless capitalism :slight_smile:

4 Likes
36

Yes, let me speak to some of your statements. The concept ubi makes people lazy has been proven false many times over. First there is scientific research that states laziness may in fact be a myth within itself.

It’s like saying you can choose to be tired or choose to have energy etc., However if receiving extra income makes a person lazy. Why do billionaires with enough money to not work for several generations still work?

If the idea of some type of free additional money that’s going to stop a person from working will make a person stop working. Then why are there many examples of people who go on extended vacation and want to go back to work?

My other question is if something like ubi will make people lazy and not work. Why are people who are lazy and won’t work. Still won’t work whether they get ubi or not? lol. So there is nothing consistent in that idea that is provable. People who don’t work find ways to probably not work anyway. Same as people who want to work… are going to work whether ubi is implemented or not.

So that idea has been proven false many many times. A person if they could live on $1000 a month and really wanted to find a way to do that or some amount of money that would cover basic necessities etc., Is the idea then that money will keep people from any ambition… advancement desires. Thats simply not a true and just an oversimplified way to try to shut down the conversation about ubi. It’s laziness on there part to do that lol.

I can go on and on about this. However, i’d respond to your statements.

"So I came with the idea of making a platform besides PoH (or inside) that offers courses for learning (from history, music, coding, carpentry) something like idk " Learning Humanity "

That’s not a bad idea i like it. However i’d just want to remind you much of the modern day revival of UBI, isn’t about the idea of a society devolving from ubi making the society stagnate and not advance or go backwards. The issue being raised about the necessity of ubi is about an advanced over automated world. As to say this isn’t an intelligence issue or educational issue. This is about humanity being outpaced by ai and advanced technology to the point of no matter how much you know or what your philosophy is about work ethics and knowledge. You’ll never be able to compute faster than an artificial computer programmed mind. This is the focus of the situation. Nothing to do with are people too lazy to work. Or go to school or think. It’s all about there are computer programs that can compose very good music. Can paint beautiful portraits… Can cgi actors and thespians into movies without having need of the actor. To not only logically outperform a human to out create him as well.

So with that said… I think your idea is interesting. Now as far as i understand this… The system that the kleros organization has created will enable projects to build things on top of it like other ubi projects. My understanding is Proof of Humanity is just one use of a product on this technology.

As far as the complete capabilities of that system to be able to do exactly what you ask and if you can build something like that on top of it i’m not 100% sure the tech extends to that level or you may have to hire a developer.

I can say this to you the Bitcoin MYK UBI project who is open to partnering with Proof of Humanity has a system thats designed similar to facebook that pays ubi. THe idea being to create a large network like Facebook worth almost a trillion dollars and send it back to the account holders in teh form of ubi.

So what this system can do is you can create groups and classrooms within the platform. Now in your questions about professors and teachers compensating them to teach and learn. What you can do inside your own created group Bitcoin MYK UBI is allow content to be hidden until the person is willing to pay for it? or if you want it to be free you can select that option. So then that means educators could have some courses for pay and some free and through this system they could implement these services.

Also each group is given network vote powers to remove accounts and remove false accounts or system abusers through vote and every group has the right through a democratic process to do that. They also receive crypto payments based on the number of users in there group automatically.

So that could be a solution. We support all ubi projects but Bitcoin MYK UBI… made a conscious decision not to run this on ethereum. We run our system on a free transactional network. We just dont believe something like ethereum is practical. We don’t think many outside of crypto will embrace systems like ethereum. Whereas inside of crypto this may be okay. However for Bitcoin MYK UBI, we’re interested in new adoption to crypto so we have to keep that in mind. So although we support all ubi projects we have extended our services to allow proof of humanity members to earn our crypto free and use it to pay fees on ethereum. If they so choose that. We’re open to assisting them we want any ubi project to succeed that serves the people the best. I don’t think ethereum does that. Some make the statements that without certain levels of security that it will render our token worthless. We don’t want that but people are our main concern not prices and not money. People first is what Bitcoin MYK UBI is about and if we stumble along the way our intentions are for the good of the people.

“And in this site the people will be able to pay for the courses that professors offers with $UBI”

Yes i mentioned on btcmyk there is a function to allow content to be only revealed once the fees are paid. if the content creator should choose.

“Also an incentive for professors (apart from contribute PoH) to use the platform and offer courses could be they will register automatically on PoH (without having to pay the register) - I really don’t know if this is possible-”

As far as fees as such. That part on ethereum probably is not possible. On Bitcoin MYK UBI…everything is free. the transactions are free… registration is free. so its very much possible on bitcoin myk which runs on hive and steem. Running on ethereum proof of humanity may be more challenging.

"The people will learn to get a better/new job, or to contribute with society development. Or they will be learning for the pleasure of knowledge.

Again, this might be a non-viable idea but i thought about it and who knows.
Sorry about my english I’m from Argentina.
Thanks for reading, I really want to end merciless capitalism"

Well again that statement the people will learn to get better. That’s not even identifying what the problem is. It has nothing to do with them getting better or contributing to society. It’s more about many causes to problems in society are the automating away of millions of jobs. So no skill or learning is necessarily going to stop automation.

Yes they may be learning for entertainment or just playing games and earning a living… or like our idea of a very valuable social network… data being the oil of the 21st century and paying everyone a tech check.

I would say this is a non-viable idea on ethereum. However this idea is already in effect on networks like Bitcoin MYK UBI. Yes its a good idea to end merciless capitalism and replace it with human centered capitalism where people in society is more important than a crypto currency price. Where people in society is more important than can the value of your cryptocurrency hold as if thats the purpose of ubi and why you doing this. In human centered capitalism people matter more than these things.

1 Like
38

Haha, Sir only role i could imagine et’s would play in my token is they recognize the token represents an advanced society that recognizes that the idea of using currency in the universe is quite primitive and not efficient.

That primates who play with something as useless as a currency don’t understand their place in the universe or what they should be doing what is important. I think they recognize that the btcmyk ubi token is sitting on the precipice of enlightening and advancing human kind forward. So they’d be interested in that.

They’d be interested in a token that helps to improve and make the world better. They wouldn’t be interested in an efficient token and they certainly wouldn’t be interested in an inefficient high cost none user friendly blockchain like ethereum.

Aliens would find it utterly ridiculous. They’d find speculation and worrying about the price of coins that only true value is to speculate for no other reason but to speculate to no end. The value to the people would be identifiable and useful.

I’d imagine et’s are interested in us because we recognize people higher forms of life are more important than yellow rocks…than dirt… than black liquid fossil fuels. The aliens would recognize the meritocracy adn value we instill upon our token community and not make people have to buy tokens in order to even have a voice. A voice that can be bought or silenced isn’t a voice worth speaking from.

I could only presume that aliens… that ufo’s or whatever you may call them would be involved in our project for those very reasons lol.

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@mykos I saw that you include the Drake Equation — which estimates the number of alien societies in outer space — in your whitepaper.

Are you in contact with extraterrestrials?

Your whitepaper:

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The Drake Equation:

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40

No sir that’s not correct, lol. We do not include the Francis Drake equation… but the (L) Drake Equation, or Ledger and Logistical Drake Equation, which pays homage to Drake’s approach to a problem. There is no connection between the drake equation which looks for life in outer space in relation to space aliens lol.

There are similarities in the approach. For example does the drake equation prove aliens exist? Are aliens even real? If you don’t know for a fact aliens are real or not, how will equations on aliens prove they are real or not? So our approach in the L drake equation is a formula that allows people to move bitcoin in relation to btcmyk without double spending. This is because as the video explains a database we use to cross reference crypto movement of bitcoin to bitcoin myk without bitcoin holders moving their bitcoin.

We are able to use this equation to reduce the possibility of that as well as identify unique accounts and link them to social media accounts.

The bitcoinmyk.com project code is not opensourced code. The pi network code is not open source nor ist the hex coin project open source. All our tokens are completely free, bitcoin holders and platform users get it free the tokens trade on several chains and exchanges.

Because the tokens are free we feel no reason to make any statements or have anyone view code its based on our proof of participation model… means you earn it when you participate. if you do not participate you do not earn the tokens. The tokens are not able to be purchased on bitcoinmyk.com. You can seek third party exchanges for purchase on blockchains with open source code you can read.

Thats the only statements we’re interested in making about that. Our governance model video on how it works will be released soon. it includes groups and member votes in the group that make decisions on who can remove what accounts on the platform.

Again we thankyou for your participation.

41

jajaj no esta de mas incluirlos jaja ,leyó algo de . la guerra de los pingüinos * o vio las declaraciones de Richard Evelyn Byrd .
si son del agua , de más allá de las estrellas , de abajo de la tierra o de más allá de la Antártida ni idea pero como dice el dicho * las brujas no existen pero de que las hay las hay.
jaja it doesn’t hurt to include them jaja , he read something from. * the war of the penguins * or saw the statements of Richard Evelyn Byrd.
If they are from the water, from beyond the stars, from below the earth or from beyond Antarctica, no idea but as the saying goes * witches don’t exist but there are *

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The idea of the L drake equation is about proving what accounts are real and which are fake lol. So lets say space aliens don’t exist or fake account x. doesn’t exist. How would you go about proving this? lol. what metrics would you use. we use a cross referencing database system that allows us to do a pretty good job of determing that.

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43

Dude, how long have you just been making up sh*t like this? :slightly_smiling_face: I can’t tell if this is a mere pump-and-dump or you’re drinking your own Kool-Aid.

1 Like